tablesaw: Gaff, from <cite>Blade Runner</cite> (Gaff)
Tablesaw Tablesawsen ([personal profile] tablesaw) wrote2009-12-17 10:04 pm

Wisdom That Cuts

It must be a nice privilege to tell someone to overlook the oppressive elements of a program, because it was helpful to you.
Beverly Guy-Sheftall, quoted in "The F Word: On Feminism, Being an Ally & Social Justice" by Dumi Lewis.

It's from a larger interview about dealing with privilege. I've been trying to keep that line close to me.

It's essentially what I've been trying to say about PUA defenders (most recently in [livejournal.com profile] theferrett's journal). It also runs in nicely with [livejournal.com profile] thete1's "'I know it's racist, Te, but the special effects look awesome!'"
elusis: (Default)

[personal profile] elusis 2009-12-18 07:12 am (UTC)(link)
You are one of my favorite newer imaginary Internet friends.
elusis: (Default)

[personal profile] elusis 2009-12-20 03:08 am (UTC)(link)
Is that what brought us into each others' orbits? Well no wonder. :)
mswyrr: (PM - mononoke hime)

[personal profile] mswyrr 2009-12-18 07:19 am (UTC)(link)
The Dumi Lewis post was fantastic. Thanks for linking!

Engagement with media that perpetuates putrid values is something I've been wrestling with lately. Since so much media has dominator culture written into its DNA even when it's not being painfully blatant about it, the question seems almost to be not whether to watch something that's sexis, racist, homophobic, etc. but when the saturation of those elements reaches the point of being too much.

In some cases, it seems obvious. Like, the makers of the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie have failed so completely that choosing not to see it has been pretty straightforward for me. But then there's the more subtle cases. Like, I enjoyed the heck out of SyFy's recent Alice miniseries, but I noticed as I watched that people of color were almost entirely absent from the story. This meant that there weren't any particularly awful POC tropes (no "what these people need is a honky!" or "magical negro" offensiveness) but, yanno, it was because POC weren't on screen 97% of the time. And that shit's fucked up. And it follows the racism of SyFy's past projects like Wizard of Earthsea in a disturbing manner. So... yeah. To follow thete1's metaphor, I was asking myself how much piss is too much piss.
mswyrr: (Hist - WWI women factory workers)

[personal profile] mswyrr 2009-12-18 09:27 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, yes! Definitely. Engaging with something that's pissing on me while I engage with it is very different than choosing to playing with stories that are hurting somebody else. The privilege is the thing here. I wasn't trying to get away from that.

I don't know of any easy answers regarding the exercise of privilege, but one thing that runs through all the links is taking a further step of determining for others how much piss is too much, or whether the rocks in the piss are worth the swimming, which is an abuse stemming from privilege.


:/ Yeah.

One personal example is Dollhouse where I tried to disclaim my privilege in finding interesting things inside well argued PROBLEMS.

Yeah. And, compared to male viewers who watched and tried to dismiss the fact that their enjoyment was grounded in privilege, I respected your attempts there. At the same time, the privilege still is what it is, in the same way that my white privilege means I get to experience a lot more stories as positive and fun even when they've got stuff I can intellectually see excluding people of color.
jonquil: (Default)

[personal profile] jonquil 2009-12-18 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
> But to bring it back to privilege, the problem is that the piss is getting on someone else.

Thank you. That's the core of it, and I hadn't seen it that way before.
cnoocy: green a-e ligature (Default)

[personal profile] cnoocy 2009-12-18 11:58 am (UTC)(link)
I've been struggling with what is doable with a broken text, especially in light of [profile] gnomicutterance's loving things that are broken. How much damage is mitigated by acknowledging the faults in a text? It's impossible for me to know.
I have other thoughts about authorial intent and voting with dollars, but I need to think them through before I express them anywhere.
upstart_crow: (Default)

[personal profile] upstart_crow 2009-12-18 12:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a problem with a lot of comments on theferrett's post that relate to a conversation I want to see take place about disability, ablism and nerological human difference which, uh, so far just isn't happening very much outside of the aspergers/autism community and some disability activist circles.

I think the book in question is steeped in privilege, though not in a way I've seen anyone address. It refuses to acknowledge the privilege people possess who do not have conditions such as aspergers/autism, social anxiety or other mental illnesses that make communication difficult. It refuses to acknowledge that US culture and society privileges extroverts and dismisses introverts and people with social anxiety as "messed up" and in need of "fixing." This is the reason my stepmother, a natural extrovert, shamed my introvert father into taking a more "active" role in social relationships, and the reason why he pressured me into "making friends" in social events when all I wanted to do was read. In both cases, we were deeply uncomfortable and found something shameful about our need to retire after a few hours of socializing because we felt overwhelmed. It is the reason why people who are not gregariously social are considered "creepy" and even potentially dangerous. It is, after all, no accident that whenever a mass shooting happens, the media always remarks about how the shooter was "quiet" and "kept to himself."

Because of all of this useless advice about "faking it 'til you make it" and trying to make eye-contact or whatever magic spell these authors promote for making friends and having relationships, people who are introverts, socially anxious and non-neurotypical feel defective. And in some cases, following through on this advice can actually be anywhere from triggering to physically uncomfortable for the person who has to fake it.

I wish the people in that post talking about how they themselves or others need to change how they speak and act to be acceptable would realize that not every human has the same neurology. And that NT/extroverted/majority people sometimes just need to look beyond what they may perceive as socially weird behavior, or at least not to assume that the person behaving in a way they find anti-social or strange is somehow unworthy of their attention or regard.

I also really find the book's equation of 24 year old virgin = pathetic to be disturbing on a number of levels, including and especially the idea that, once again, people who can't attract a date or a partner are defective.
jonquil: (Default)

[personal profile] jonquil 2009-12-18 03:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. I've never forgotten the time my husband's small employer did an MBTI test and the test-giver had to explain what an introvert. One of the people on the non-software side said (imagine broad Texas accent) "I think people like that are SICK!"

But, yeah. Similarly, WHAT COLOR IS MY PARACHUTE was shoved on me for years, and I always thought it showed lack of gumption that I died inside at the thought of contacting strangers.
upstart_crow: (Default)

[personal profile] upstart_crow 2009-12-18 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I should also probably add that I take such things quite personally because of some past experiences in the mental health field where a therapist pushed anti-depressants and all of these techniques on me not because they would make me feel better, but because people couldn't possibly like or deal with me as a scared, sad, 18-year-old who had just lost her father to suicide, her friends to high school graduation and a bad break up, and was therefore crying a lot, being "intense" and having what should have been seen as entirely understandable -- especially for a teenager -- emotional responses to grief and loss and the pressures of college and isolation. In other words, yes, I was acting out, but a little fucking compassion and less assumption on the part of my peers and teachers should not have been all that fucking tall of an order.